Jan Koch 00:08
Welcome, everybody. Thanks for joining me on the WP Agency Summit. I’m here with Jean-Baptiste Marchand-Avier, who is the CEO of WP Media and you probably know some of their products like WP Rocket or Imagify. And I am super excited to have JB on and give us a little bit of a look behind the scenes of what’s going on in WP Media, how he’s grown the company to the extraordinary level they are at right now. Welcome, JB.
Jean Baptiste 00:37
Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me and I’m really happy to be there.
Jan Koch 00:42
I’m honored that you’re taking the time for this event. Can you give us an introduction of who you are and who you even got started in the WordPress space?
Jean Baptiste 00:51
Oh, yes. So we need to go really deep into the past. So as you say, My name is JB, I guess people have seen that and have heard that I’m French, looking for my accent. I’m the CEO of WP Media which is a company we have created in 2014. And I’ve been in WordPress for a very long time. I don’t remember exactly in which year but at this time really WordPress was only for blogs because there were no custom post types at all. So if you wanted to create a website, to build a website with WordPress, it was really difficult. You have to play these categories and it was really difficult and definitively only done by coding. I mean, what a huge improvement we’ve seen into WordPress, mostly at the beginning things to custom post type and so many new things which have been added to WordPress and yeah, I’m super happy and excited about WordPress today and so, but what WordPress is going to be in the upcoming years.
Jan Koch 02:00
Yeah, yeah, I couldn’t agree more. There are so many nice things that are rolling out especially with 5.5 these days. How did you get started with WP media? I read in the when I was doing research for this interview, I saw that you were already passionate about fast loading WordPress websites. So I’m excited to learn more about where the passion came from and how you started WP Media in the early days.
Jean Baptiste 02:25
Yeah. So it has been started by two people, Jonathan, my co-founder and me, on my side, I did have a lot of websites with huge traffic and all these websites were using WordPress. And so I technically needed to make them fast. Otherwise, I would have paid huge tons of money in hosting. And at this time, it was really not possible. So I needed to find some tricks and some solutions to make websites faster and to make WordPress faster. So I was using a caching plugin and some optimization. And at the same time, Jonathan as well was really focusing on all the front end optimization. He was a developer. Hands, he was really great on that. And we were working together in an agency. And we were both working on making the website faster, but we were not happy with the existing solution. And we had to find, in a way, our secret sauce, you know, finding the good caching plugin, configuring, adding some extra things. And we were not fully happy because that was quite hard to do long and working for hours. But we were thinking that for us, it’s difficult and we are performance experts. And we’re thinking about people using WordPress who are not really technical necessarily and even if they can be they don’t necessarily want to spend hours configuring a caching plugin to make it work. So we decided and try to make all, to take all the knowledge we had about performance and to make it and to put it into a really simple caching plugin, where you simply need to enable the plugin, and maybe a few actions but nothing crazy. The idea was to make something which is working really fast and that everyone can use it even if you are non-technical because performance is technical and our job at the beginning and still is to make things non-technical for the people who are using it.
Jan Koch 04:34
Yeah, and you’re definitely doing a solid job with that. WP Rocket is one of the most straightforward to configure plugins that I’ve seen. Why the focus on creating a plugin rather than selling that knowledge as a service to other clients?
Jean Baptiste 04:53
I think at this time, it was really about being able to provide a global solution because if you are selling what you do, you don’t really scale and you need to spend a lot of time and then you repeat a lot of things. And it’s not really the same value you provide to people when you do the things or when you do provide a tool, plugin, which allows them to do everything you are doing on your site. So it was really, the focus we want to have is, let’s create a plugin, let’s create a product where people will be able to use it and would be really happy to use it. And the funny thing is at the beginning, and this is something very complicated. We try to really have just a few features. And just we had at this time when we launch it we had just a single page option and probably there were like five or six options and now they are much more and most of our focus today is how we can remove options because this time, you know we have added new features because there are so many things that people want, people need and that we can do. But the more features you add, the more options you add. And the most time people need to take to configure it. And today we’re trying to remove things to do the more things automatically speaking, and so they can just enable the WP market and it’s working.
Jan Koch 06:21
Interesting. So it’s rather focusing on making decisions rather than giving options to all your customers.
Jean Baptiste 06:27
Absolutely, yes, this is definitely our philosophy since day one and we are still doing it. So for the people who don’t know this is one of the core features of WordPress and the idea is the more option you are giving to someone the more he will be lost because he will be this person who will be frustrated by not knowing about this specific option. should they enable it? Is that going to break my website or if I do not enable it, I won’t benefit all the features of the product. So yeah, let’s remove option and let’s enable things by default if we can, and without breaking websites.
Jan Koch 07:05
Yeah, I’m a big fan of that, too. It’s similar to the paralysis by analysis issue that sometimes you get so lost in doing research that you forget executing what you really wanted to do. How did you get WP Rocket off the ground? I mean by now you have like, what 130,000 websites or something like that? 130,000 clients, many more websites than that.
Yeah, we have a bit more than 1.2 million websites today. I think we check a few weeks ago, into that and one website one new website per minute, which is.
Jan Koch 07:42
Whoa. Yeah, first of all, kudos on getting this far in one of the most competitive markets in the speed optimization services and plugins business. How did you manage to build this market positioning and market authority?
Yeah. So the first thing is, it was a few years ago and things have moved a lot. I mean, we have seen that people have been much more professional in the WordPress ecosystem. When we launched, it was very different. And the performance ecosystem was much smaller. There were two or three big free caching plugins. And that’s all. We were really the first premium caching plugin. And so that’s funny because it’s something I always say when we hire new people. When we do products, we have really three things we always focus on. The first thing is simplicity. And that something we totally can beat in, in the last minutes. It’s really what we always try to do. Let’s think about how we can make our user life easier. Because you know, when you have a WordPress website, that’s because you want to create content. You want to sell things or whatever, and you shouldn’t spend time configuring it to make your website faster. I mean, this should be, that shouldn’t take time for you. So really simplicity. The second thing is customer support for us that’s very important. And especially on the performance parts, because when you have a caching plugin, all the requests come to your caching plugins, which means that together have a huge impact and people will be really worried about that. You can break many websites and that did happen. So we need to be always proactive we need to help people. And the last thing is to make sure that what we do are working. And that’s something we do like with our job and mission. Everything is really objective. We make the website faster so we can measure. Is this feature going to improve? Yes, how much and we can decide if we really need to do that feature. So that’s, that’s really simple at the end to decide if our product, technically speaking, is good. And so we really at the beginning focused on the C suite things and, and we just send it to the world. In fact, we send it on influence, because we were, let’s say, famous in the French community, but no one knew us outside. And we wanted to really test the product first. Let’s try to see if people like our products if we can invest more time in it. So let’s just send it to friends to French people. And let’s see how it’s working. And since the day one people were really excited about that because, at this time, there were like three big caching plugins, but there were no I mean, there were in a way, not really updated. And yeah, caching plugin performance. I was Yeah, quite slow. And people were really happy to see something new. And they wanted to try and they try it. And they were really shocked in a way that it was fast, easy to configure and yeah, it was working basically they simply had to enable WP rocket and their website were twice fast. And so they try it and they recommend it as soon as they just installed like, Oh, you should try WP Rocket and this is how it is in France, at least people were using it and they had an issue we answer them directly into the support and they were shocked like oh even enter into customer support. Contacting like, in less than two hours what’s happening I’ve never seen and so they’re really happy and they just share with the world. I mean, to the friends at least. And then it was working well in France, but we wanted to expand and we wanted to be able to spend more time and they’re loving it. So we decided to just go worldwide. And so it’s quite easy in a way we just translated our websites. And that’s all Yeah, we are. We’re a big company now we are selling all over the world. But now, in reality, we had to what we needed was, of course, to improve the product because it was really at the beginning and also to communicate because if you don’t communicate well, that doesn’t really work. And when you have a great product, it’s always much easier to communicate you know, if you want to sell something, which is bad. I mean, you can of course spend millions into marketing will be able to sell it but yeah, that’s never worked in the long term. And so we, we choose one strategy. We were a really small team. At this point. We didn’t have a lot of time and so what we did was contacting all the WordPress blogger, all the people who are talking about WordPress in general or caching plugins or web performance, and send them an email to say, hey, we’ve just created WP Rocket, this is the new caching plugin, we do that with things that we are a bit different. We’re learning what is existing here is a link so you can get it for free. Because normally the review market is a, you need to buy it. Please test it, if you like it. And if you want, we would be more than happy if you can write a review on your blog. If you don’t, no issue, no big deal. And it works. So well. People tried it. It was a good product. And it is a good product. They were happy. And they just write about the very few markets and this all started just thanks to that.
Jan Koch 13:47
Interesting. Do you think that approach would still work today? If you were to come out with a new product and you didn’t have that massive audience that you have right now? Would you take that approach today or would you try something different?
I think I will try the same approach but what would be really needed? Because things again are really different with so much affiliate program because people are now, they expect to be paid if they promote something which is in a way fair, is that they work, so we do that at one condition that if our product is really really different and something really new, for example, if I’m going to create a new contact form, I’m not sure if this is going to work because they are quite a few products already. So I would if I would have something really different probably I will try it again.
Jan Koch 14:46
Interesting. Is that on your radar, or do you prefer to just focus on WP rocket and Imagify for now?
Create a new product?
Jan Koch 14:54
We have recently launched a new product which is called Rocket CDN. Right now it’s not really a full product because it’s only for WP Rocket users. And you can buy it only when you have WP Rocket. Again, we, most of the time, when we launch a new idea, we want to validate it. And we want to make sure that we don’t invest so much time on something which is not going to work. So we always try to, yes, that’s more like the MVP approach. Send something even if it’s not perfect, see if it’s working, improve and just after expand. So again, this is our approach we have taken with Rocket CDN. We’ve tried to bring our simplicity vision into CDN because today, even if it’s not something very complicated, adding a CDN to WordPress can be not a nice process. You need to find a CDN provider, you need to register, you need to configure to pay, then they give you a specific URL, you need to add the plugin to manage it. And we do that in one click into WP Rocket. And we want to expand that, not only for the WP Rocket. But to come back to your initial question. Yes, we are thinking about new products. The thing is, we are still a small team, and we need to focus on what really matters. And it’s that’s, that’s a mistake we did in the past. When we initially create WP Rocket, we had great feedback about that. And people were asking about major optimizations we did the Imagify, and it did work quite well. And we at this time, we thought that we found the secret tweak to make products which are working so we thought okay, that’s great new products, five new products and we started working on a security plugin on seams and you know, You just lose your focus to try to do everything and you don’t do anything well. Until now we are really focused on our existing products making websites faster. And we are slowly expanding by adding new, new small products like work at CDN or working on another optimization service. But you don’t want to really create a new product, which is different. Totally different.
Jan Koch 17:25
Yeah, makes total sense. And especially if you have like, I think 35 employees right now, or the team is the size of 35 people.
Yes. 37. Yeah, let’s say 40. Because we are hiring.
Jan Koch 17:39
Yeah, yeah. I would imagine that most of the people watching this interview are not at that size right now. So they are probably maybe five to 10 person teams. And I would love to dive a little bit into your experience of growing that team, like what does it take to hire good talent and how do you keep them happy?
It takes a lot first and you need to be ready I would say for that. I think there is some kind of numbers which are really changing things like, in the beginning, I would say when you are less than 15 sorry, it’s, it’s quite a small team, you don’t necessarily need or add a lot of processes. Because you don’t hire so fast people not leaving the company or really, really slow things that are quite small. After 15 when you start to be, you know, 20, 25, 30 it’s getting much bigger, and you need to professionalize a lot of things like hire. In the beginning, our hiring process was really soft. And there are not now we can’t really call that a process. today. We have a really strong process, everything is documented. And these allow us to not think that thing that doesn’t really matter, you know about the process, how we are going to interview What does the question we’re going to ask I mean, everything is ready. We just need to find a good person to do the process to validate according to the process to say yes, no. So everything goes much faster. And we don’t need to think about that. But back to back to your question. Yeah, the more you grow, I would say the more process you need and so the more great people you need. And this is something which is really important for a team is to have good people because at the end of the day that the people into the company who are doing things, it’s not you or my co-founder, I mean, yes, we’re doing things but we are just two people and there is a team of 14 so they are doing the company we are holding the company. So if you don’t have a great person there it’s never going to work. And so huge work on. I mean, in a way everything is linked, you know, if you, if you don’t have a nice mission as a company, if you don’t have a good product, if you don’t have a good culture, if you don’t have a lot of these things people won’t apply, they will just find, okay, a job, I will have a salary at the end of this month. But as soon as something better I will join another company. And so that’s what we did twice, in the beginning, is trying to have a real mission to have a long term vision for our company, for our products, to have a strong culture to help people grow and identities, what makes our team very good and very strong.
Jan Koch 20:44
Interesting. Would you say that the soft skills kind of like work ethic and moral and the ability to learn and to improve are more important than the hard technical skills that somebody needs to fulfill the position you hiring for,
It depends. That’s a hard question. Oh, yes. I would seem that you need both. Because if you are a next, if you have exceptional technical skills, let’s talk about the development. But in the end, if you can’t collaborate, if you can’t communicate, you won’t have the team and it’s not going to work. I mean, you’re a Rockstar, whatever, you know, you are the famous and you are so good and development but if you can’t work with your team, that’s not going to work. So in the end, you know, if you have to choose it’s mostly usually better to have someone who has less technical skills in development for example, but can communicate and work in collaboration and can improve as well because as always, you know, he goes with you will be stuck with your ego and you won’t be able to do anything.
Jan Koch 22:05
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. From my experience to you, you can always train these technical things. But if somebody doesn’t have teamwork ingrained or the willingness to take criticism and then improve upon that, I think those traits are much harder to bring into people from the outside rather than if they are ingrained into team members.
So how does the day to day at WP media look like, like managing a team of 40 people I can imagine there’s a constant stream of communication coming in and out on slack and email and phone and stuff like that. How do you stay productive and ensure that the overall company is moving in the right direction?
The first thing we do since the beginning and by design is we are writing a lot and we are using asynchronous communication. I did say by design is because our team is from all over the world which means that there is different time zone and when it’s morning for me it’s the afternoon for someone else or for the night for someone else. And so that’s why we, of course, we use a lot of slack we use slack a lot but the way we use slack is we don’t you know, we expect people to answer liking the means because you know if you’re that especially with this kind of member of the team and they can’t imagine when you know there is a company with 200 people like everything should go too fast. And you can be lost just in slack and you can just spend your day chatting but not producing anything. So slack or any kind of chat product is a tool to being helped, but it’s not really the center of the communication. So that’s why we have divided also in terms of tools with two other products. The first one is we have an internal blog, it’s more or less like your P2 like he’s using automatic just to send updates and to communicate about new things. Like for example, also reports since we are also a transparent company we try to communicate about everything. And so for example, we share the marketing reports every month we should report reports when we are preparing a new update for any kind of plugin, we are sharing the planet, okay, this is the features we want to have, this is what we’re going to work or we do a ritual. So this is all our news directly. And so we have some kind of static documentation which is into Notion where everything is written. All our processes are our internal documentation. It’s our own support. And so this allows us to work to focus on what matters when you need help. When you need a meeting, you can go into Slack, we try to not have so much Zoom calls because it’s all video call using, he came up to you you want because it’s great, we need it. And it’s always better, you know, to see someone smiling because when you are writing, you know, sometimes you are putting a smiley but people are not understanding what you really mean. Even if you have like Luffy they seem that you’re angry or whatever. So it’s good to just as icebreakers that’s awesome. But at the same time, it’s draining and it’s difficult. I don’t know if you have experienced that during zoom meeting all day and like to at 6 pm you’re just dying. You don’t have enough energy at all. Because yeah, it’s, it’s quite a lot. And so we try to really have just a small amount of meetings. Because in a way, if you do meetings, it’s because at the point you, you miss something into the communication or you didn’t twice enough for you haven’t been? You didn’t explain enough. Of course for some decision, it’s good to have a zoom meeting but yeah, we try really to, to not have that much, two, three maximum per week or otherwise is, it’s too much. And the issue with zoom meeting is it’s, you know, it’s happening, but you don’t necessarily know what’s happening, or the people who are not in the zoom meeting, don’t know what’s happening. And, like, in one month, I would forget for example, what I’ve just said there, and yeah, thanks to writing everything stays, you know, so yeah, we try really to, to wait a lot instead.
Jan Koch 26:59
I’ve seen many organizations kind of go the opposite way and improve, implement, like standing meetings every day at the same time to just keep everybody on track. And I always thought that this is why the idea is nice to always keep everybody on the same track and on the same page and keep everybody updated. It’s also so time-consuming, and it’s so expensive to mine like, like, if you have 10 people and 10 people go for 10 hours, every day combined 10 hours every day for five days a week, you just wasted 50 hours of working time that you have to pay salaries for. So I really like that approach of notion. And I would love to dive a little bit deeper into that, like, do we have an internal wiki? And do you have like, or how did you structure the documentation? Essentially, it’s a question. It’s always something I struggle with, like, how do I make information findable and accessible in my documentation?
Jean Baptiste 28:00
Yeah, just to nuance a little bit about the stand-up meeting, of course, it’s time and that’s something we do for one project but so you need in a way to be balanced because if you is that help someone you know because and so you working remotely that can be difficult and you can feel and for some people that could add them feeling part of the team and like that can that can unlock things like for example, again, but development if they were doing the stand-up meetings and I’m struggling to sing, another developer could say I know the solution I can help you so even if you can lose time, sometimes you got your winning time. So yeah, there are pros and cons. Back comes Notion and back comes the docs. Well, let me throw my Notion open so I can have a look. We have divided into the big categories. The first one is the handbook. The handbook is everything regarding the company where everything is written. Like we have the team directory, but everyone we have big onboarding books which cover everything from like, the basic to the extreme things like for example, my computer is broken, how this is working, how can I get a new computer and this is written into notion when I’m being paid, how I should send the invoice, you know, all this kind of stuff. We are listing all our internal tours, like okay, this is like and then we have a dedicated page. Ah, that’s slack with all our channels which are described. Yeah, there are so many things and it’s really important for us, it helps so much, you know, for onboarding because when you come into a company and there is so many things to know, these things being written or that that is very very helpful. So, really about the handbook is how the company is working on the on the daily basis. Then we have some different wiki for engineers, Product Manager when we describe, for example, with engineers we have a job description, or our IT and DevOps or the software we are using, what’s our responsibilities? What’s our mission? And then we try to divide by team. The same we have the support wiki support manual, when everything is basically explained, like how you should work into how you should insert tickets, what tags should you put, what’s the process, what the best practice we need to use all this kind of stuff. And then we have a wiki for each product. We describe to them how they are working, what the technology behind what’s our features how this is working. So what’s our older marketing things like this is all the existing coupons, our brand assets, how competitors, everything is to notions this is our brain, basically of the company. That’s quite an effort to update and to put everything into it. But yeah, that’s really worth it.
Jan Koch 31:25
That is so helpful. I’m just going to listen to this myself before everybody else sees that and implement a few things in my own business. That is super helpful. Thanks for that breakdown. We’re coming into land unfortunately, we have like 10 minutes left, and I don’t want to take up more time of your schedule than what was actually planned. So for the last section of this conversation, I would love to focus a little bit on the personal development side of things like what it takes to be a CEO of such a fast-growing company. How did you personally change over the years? So when you think back about when you started WP Media with Jonathan together? Did you have always this plan in mind to grow WP Media to the level you’re at right now? or is that something that just evolved as you saw the traction?
So the first answer, but did we plan it? No. wasn’t our plan Not at all. We simply wanted to create a caching plugin. And it happened that it really worked very well. And we add to that, of course, we wanted to make it grow and we want it to expand but we never saw it and we never plan that this is going to be as huge what it is now and what it should be tomorrow. The other thing is we didn’t have any of the experts. Just time I was like 22 and I had one job, I didn’t know how we’re working, you know, professionally speaking. So everything we had to learn, we get paid a lot and we learn we learn. The good thing about personal development is I am not alone. Being with Jonathan, my co-founder is so helpful because really, I can’t imagine doing that alone. And, and I mean, all the decisions we are taking because most of the decisions we’re just taking together we are talking about that. And this always brings another perspective. And it’s always great so that the first thing I mean if someone is launching is creating our company product alone and is successful that someone who is really, really excellent or very lucky or both but this is very helpful as well to have someone to work together. Of course, this as cons as well, we can have a lot of conflicts sometimes it’s not working. But we’re really lucky with my co-founder, because most of the time we agree if we disagree, and we should disagree. And we have conflict sometimes, but it’s always good. And we try. We have a company vision. So what do I have? Our decision is about the company. It’s not our personal ego. So that’s
Jan Koch 34:28
Oh, yes. And the thing is, you learn by doing, of course, the thing which is difficult, for me, at least is you learn but what you learn in a way is never really useful, because as a company is growing, you need to learn new things. And the new things you have learned are not useful anymore because the site or the company or the things you need to do are totally different. So That’s, yeah, you’re always learning and sometimes that’s, that’s a bit difficult, but that’s part of the game. And yeah, personally for me, what I did a lot is reading a lot, even if it’s not secret and you won’t find all the answers into books but that gives you perspective. Because, yeah, that’s always helpful to me, I mean, like you, you need to train yourself. I mean, it’s like, we usually give the example of the company as like a sports team, and we need to train ourselves if we don’t train I mean, we, it’s not going to work. So as a CEO, I need to train myself to learn using and to have to be helped with external people, different coach I’ve met who are helping me to make a better decision because, you know, in in a company, even If other businesses are really different, most of the things you need to deal with are usually the same. And so if you have experience with if you are someone who is able to, we have seen that with talking to lots of other entrepreneurs, there is always some kind of solution and at least another vision. So for me, that’s asked me a lot. And also for a few months, just several months, almost a year we ever saw people, we have created intermediate management into the company. So we have no CTO, we have no CMO. And yeah, that’s really like, that’s a switch into the company because there is so many things we can work together and like not Jonathan and me together, trying to move but all these people who are helping us together and we are just yeah, working together into the same direction trying to find someone. Something sorry. Yeah. And that’s really something it’s so much better to just be like, in a way alone, you know, trying to drive you. Yeah, you just have co-drivers. And that’s, that’s what’s helping so much.
Jan Koch 37:25
Yeah, even just having somebody to bounce your ideas off on, and then have open conversations about your ideas. And as you said, sometimes you don’t agree on stuff. And sometimes you need to have the hard conversations that bring out the reasons why you don’t agree. And for my experience, that’s where the best ideas and the end come out of because then you’re really forced to dive deep into why you are on your position and the other person is on their position. And how you can make ends meet but I want to dive a little bit into the reading part because that is something that I hear more and more when I’m talking to more successful people like yourself is what types of books do you read? Usually? And do you have like a favorite or two that you could share for the attendees watching the session?
Jean Baptiste 38:14
Yeah. Just before answering that question, there is one thing I would add is, like you mentioned talking to people and talking as well to another entrepreneur to other business owners, about your issues about things where you’re stuck and they would say the same thing, like one year ago, did you try that? And yeah, usually that helps a lot. But books are…I try to not read only one type of book, otherwise, you know, your brain just is like that. So I love reading and I tried to read a lot of things. So this comes from, but of course, a lot of things relating to business in general to management, to things like that. One book, which has been really helpful and which I liked a lot is the Hard Thing About Doing Hard Things.
Jan Koch 39:13
Yes, Ben Horowitz.
Jean Baptiste 39:15
Exactly. Yeah. It’s more relevant when you have a big, big company. And we’re not at this position. But it’s good to as this, this kind of perspective. One I’ve read recently, which I really love is a Radical Candor, which is a far more keen way to provide feedback to people and it’s really life-changing. Lean Startup is a wonderful book as well. We have Jonathan Lee, where it’s really at the beginning of the company and so many things we are doing now are in a way, thanks to that. Like doing MVP, starting small with a small product. and improving it, thanks to the books. So yeah, a lot of books related to the product to people to management to business. And it’s interesting as well too, for me to read a biography, like how people did leave, and to have also their perspective. But yeah, the books are just, you know, food for your brain and we all need that. Of course, it’s easier to watch Netflix, which I watch a lot. But it’s good, you know, to just balance sometimes read a book, sometimes it’s something else and you never lose time, I would say by reading books.
Jan Koch 40:43
Yeah, but couldn’t agree more with that. Do you set aside time every day for reading from your work schedule, or is it something that comes and goes depending on how your day flows?
Jean Baptiste 40:56
Yeah, I usually don’t really read during the days. It’s mostly during the weekends, where I read a few pages. I would love to just, you know, block one hour per day to just read which I think which should be really possible and just at the end and just how you manage time amazing everyone should be able to do that but it’s yeah, it’s a priority you know and I probably I could use Twitter less and read more books and the time would be the same but yeah, it’s something I think should be interesting like spending time for reading during the days but in the same time you know, you should do that because you want that and you should read because you like that and you want to improve so you should do that when you want in a way and if when you want is never know that’s not everything.
Jan Koch 41:57
I love it and I am a big proponent of being aware of why you’re doing what you’re actually doing and how you’re spending your time. And sometimes I need to definitely force myself to take a step back and to reflect on. How did I spend the past few days? And am I moving in the right direction? Especially with organizing conferences like this? It’s so easy to get caught up and stuff, which I imagine happens to you as well, sometimes, that just it’s overflowing what’s coming at you and you have to take a step back and you have to prioritize and see what issues you have to take first. And I think that’s a lesson that just applies to any business owner, I would say.
Jean Baptiste 42:39
Yeah, exactly. And I will agree with you. I think when you do something you always need to think about why really, you’re doing that. Are you reading books because you have watched someone into a web conference who is saying you should read books? No, you shouldn’t read books if that’s the reason. If you are in interested into a subject and if you want to expand yourself yeah, read books or watch videos about that there are so many things you can learn and yeah, you need to Yeah, do that because you really want and for the good reason otherwise that’s never working.
Jan Koch 43:14
Yeah, brilliant and I think that’s a fantastic way to wrap up this conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to drop so much knowledge on us. How do people can get in touch with you and learn more about your work?
Jean Baptiste 43:28
by sending me a book probably or now just like on Twitter probably. It’s a @JB_MA or directly if you Google my name you should find my email on my website or whatever.
Jan Koch 43:45
Fantastic. Thank you so much JB. have a great rest of the day.
Jean Baptiste 43:49
You’re welcome, see you soon.